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help with phonological constraints

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May. 23rd, 2009 | 04:08 pm
posted by: zilenserz in alt_worlds

I've been using the language construction kit as a baseline to make sure I don't just go copy another language,  and I need some help with phonological constraints.

ere's the link: www.zompist.com/kitlong.html#sounds can anyone help me understand?  thanks.

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Comments {9}

whimsical_pixie

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from: whimsical_pixie
date: May. 24th, 2009 02:04 am (UTC)
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The point is to decide what sounds can and cannot be adjacent to each other. Here's a real life example I'm pretty familiar with.

-With Japanese, every consonant sound must be followed by a vowel with the one exception of n.
-The only consonant sounds used are {k, g, s, z, sh, j, t, d, n, h, b, f, p, m, y, r, w}
-The only vowel sounds are {a, i, u, e, o}
-The consonant f is only used to make the sound fu; the consonant y can only ever be followed by {a, u, o} = {ya, yu, yo}; the consonant w can only ever be followed by {a, o} = {wa, wo} and wo is a sound only used for one word (wo), never anywhere else
-The only way to combine consonants is to take one of {k, g, sh, j, h, b, p, r} and add {y}, which is then followed by {a, u, o} because that's the rule for {y}
-There is also the "double consonant" of sorts (the word nikkou for example). It's a little tricky to describe because you technically don't "say" it when you speak, though you hear it. It's a total stop, often described as a hiccup sound, and if you do voice it out, you actually re-voice the vowel that precedes it instead of the consonant that follows it. The general rule (with a few notable exceptions in speaking) is that you never have this double consonant at the beginning of a word, and it always follows a vowel (so no double consonants after a single n)

These are the main rules that make Japanese sound the way it does. Hopefully this will help you. Good luck!

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zilenserz

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from: zilenserz
date: May. 24th, 2009 10:39 am (UTC)
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ok, I understand better now... It'll take me a few days to work out the one for my language though... I'll run it through you when It's done.

thanks!

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whimsical_pixie

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from: whimsical_pixie
date: May. 24th, 2009 01:10 pm (UTC)
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Not a problem. Looking forward to it!

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zilenserz

i think I've got it.

from: zilenserz
date: May. 24th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC)
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I think I've got it. I'll put it past you, and say if you think I need to add anything (Or it doesn't tie in with what I've posted on my blog)

ok.

H can be used to add texture to the consonants before/after it- It's more of an auxillary letter- and isn't sounded separately.

High vowelrs (i, e and their accented varients) can be lone syllables to tie together a word (usually two roots words forming a new word -ie. Ghillëadh.

The consonants that are pronounced are: g, s,j.t,d,n,sh,b,t,p,m,r,w.

'C' is always soft. 'ç' is always hard. (makes sure that there aren't loads of pronunication errors.)

vowels are: a,i,o,u,y and their accented variants.

a double consonant -or in soem rare cases vowels- sound just like an elongation of the sound.

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!

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from: turkish_coffee
date: May. 25th, 2009 04:06 pm (UTC)
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Generally, I follow the rule of "If it's too hard to say, don't say it that way."

I usually omit glottals, 'cause I think they're weird. Also, it can be difficult to say things if the only difference between a letter is voicing. It works okay for the labialsl, but I dare you to sit there saying fvfvfvfvfvfvfvfvfvfv or zszszszszszszszszss. Remeber to uniquely pronounce every letter.

Although, I think I may have found a good onomatopoeia for the flying noise of bugs, in case buzz for some reason is ousted from English.

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zilenserz

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from: zilenserz
date: May. 25th, 2009 06:20 pm (UTC)
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I'm not a linguist- So you'll have to be a bit more pecise (GOD i HATE SPELLING THAT WORD) What's a glottal or labial? (I've heard fo them, can't remember what they mean) and which bit is too hard to say?

thanks for the imput.

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!

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from: turkish_coffee
date: May. 26th, 2009 09:42 am (UTC)
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I've since realised. what I might fidn hard to say is due to what I'm used to in my own language's constraint.

Still, make sure you can say everything in your conlang...

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secret_vice

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from: secret_vice
date: May. 26th, 2009 03:17 am (UTC)
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A glottal consonant includes all consonants that are articulated at the back of the throat, such as the English consonant /h/. Labial consonants includes all consonants that are articulated with both lips or the lower lip and upper teeth. English labial consonants include: /b/, /f/, /m/, /p/ and /v/.

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zilenserz

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from: zilenserz
date: May. 28th, 2009 04:55 pm (UTC)
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thanks, that;s great help! By the way, Secret, what's the name of the symbol on your userpic? I can't remember, but I saw it somewhere completely unrelated a few days ago, as well as in a few conspiracy theories, if I remember. what's it called/symbolise?

Also, Turkish: Don't worry, I can pronounce my words perfectly- the h as an addition just elongates the ending.for dh- du is kind of like how you say it, but more like a higher version (almost like de) thanks.

hope taht makes sense...

now , will someone answere, does my phonological constraits look ok?

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